Curse

DreamWind · Sep 27, 2008, 06:32 PM // 18:32

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Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

they would be completely retarded not to put in the online store.

As I said, you are one of the only people in this thread in support of this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

I don't think that statement is quite correct to encumbrance everyone for one odd as this might sound, I never even heard of this "skill>time" advertising I only started hearing about it on forums and then in game, at any rate a more correct statement we brought the game because certain aspects of either on the box or around the web made it appeal to us, those things may or may not appeal to you as well, you just going to have to deal with the fact that 'solo' exists.

You have what I like to call selective reading. If you are telling me you rushed to the box and read the tiny part about being able to solo (with HENCHMEN mind you not heroes), but you didn't even notice that the entire rest of the box was covered in statements that your skill determined your game over time spent, then you are clearly using the box only for your own purposes and completely ignoring the rest of it. If I had a working scanner I would prove it to you myself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

It's only terrible to you because you cannot argue ageist it, it's right there in black and white for all the world to see, you can wiggle and worm all you like and try and twist everything around until your siblings from the 100th generation from you turn blue, it isn't going to change what was written on the box.

I just did argue against it. I think Avarre (as usual) also put it nicely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

I'm wondering if you think this way because your embraced that you missed this on the box and realize now that you didn't want a game like this.

Finally you got something right. Yes I didn't want a game full of solo farmers. I wanted the multiplayer competitive experience that Anet actually meant this game to be (and stated multiple times on said box).

Zahr Dalsk · Sep 27, 2008, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

LOL. You posted this a million pages back and it was as stupid then as it is now. Since when do henchmen=heroes? Not to mention as Avarre brilliantly stated, back of the box has long since been invalidated as solid evidence for anything.

But you just said that anyone who bought a game called "Guild Wars" is a terrible shopper. I provided an example of why a person might read the Guild Wars box, as I did, and see that solo gameplay is supported.

Did you actually think about what I was saying and what I was replying to, or did you simply spew out the trash that is floating through your inadequate mind? If anything is to be called stupid, you certainly make a fine candidate for the term.

And of course, Avarre most certainly was not brilliant in his statement, as he, like you, didn't even take note of what I was replying to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

A lot of people misinterpret my previous post. I don't mind that single player exists. I just dislike todays culture of player in this game.

So do I; I hate the culture of players in the game; thus I prefer to play solo. Indeed this happens for any game that goes with little to no moderation and actively caters to a younger audience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

I did some investigating myself and looked at all collector edition boxes, and NONE OF THEM MENTION SOLO PLAY!

And how common are collectors' edition boxes? Prophecies Collectors Edition isn't sold anywhere other than ebay, and the Factions/Nightfall Collectors Editions are barely available anywhere, particularly not Canada.

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Originally Posted by DreamWind

So how's that for ya?!

It's just fine for me, because it means you've run out of rational arguments and are relying on something that is not even valid.

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Originally Posted by DreamWind

In fact, the Prophecies box mostly mentions various voice chat options for playing with humans.

No, the prophecies box does not. The collectors edition might, but that, as established, isn't sold in retail stores anymore. Additionally, the existence of voice chat in no way invalidates solo gameplay.

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Originally Posted by DreamWind

Not to mention, reading the rest of the normal Prophecies box sure makes the game sound multiplayer to me.

To you (and that's simply your own opinion, which, judging by your posts, isn't a very rational one) - but not to many of us, because it is quite supportive of singleplayer gameplay.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

I'm just saying, I think Guild Wars was always meant to be a multiplayer game. Heroes to me were always a blessing and a curse for this game.

Guild Wars was meant to be a game that could be played solo or with other people. Unfortunately the PUG population resents the idea that we prefer solo gameplay rather than suffering through their company, and thus those PUG players who post here apparently want to prevent us from getting increased quality of gameplay.

DreamWind · Sep 27, 2008, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Did you actually think about what I was saying and what I was replying to, or did you simply spew out the trash that is floating through your inadequate mind? If anything is to be called stupid, you certainly make a fine candidate for the term.

And of course, Avarre most certainly was not brilliant in his statement, as he, like you, didn't even take note of what I was replying to.

Hey its another person ignoring the facts. First of all, nice flame (ban perhaps?). Second, your point is still garbage. You posted a small portion of the box that said players are able to solo with henchmen. Thats fine, and I have already that solo should be in the game. You fail to read the entire rest of the box that says a bunch of other things that are NO LONGER IN THE GAME. The box means ZERO. If you or anybody else are using the box as evidence for solo play, I could use it for evidence of the game that was supposed to be something it is not today.

So not are only are you being completely ignorant of the rest of the box, you are also reading the ONE part you posted wrong because it says HENCHMEN not HEROES. Is this through you and everybody else's thick head yet!? BOX=BAD ARGUMENT. PERIOD.

Abedeus · Sep 27, 2008, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Yeah, but it also says those henchmen are skillful. Neither monks OR warriors are skillful. A monkey without one hand can do better...

Ozric · Sep 27, 2008, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Let the npc bears have their 7 or 12 or 36 or however many heroes they think they'll need to do anything and everything they think they need to do to farm all the cute little titles and get all the little digital toys they think they want. This game was already ruined for those that preferred pve in a multiplayer atmosphere the day heroes were introduced anyway.

This poll more reflects the amount of people who left the game out of frustration for not being able to get a group and rightfully refused to play H/H. All that's left are the pvpers and those who, amazingly, actually enjoy watching npc's battle npc's.

Bryant Again · Sep 27, 2008, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

All the problems you mentioned are developments of Anet. These problems could have been fixed years ago and still aren't. Instead, heroes were essentially a patch to the problems that have yet to be solved and may not even be solved for GW2 since Anet hasn't acknowledged them in GW1 as far as I know.

Developmental shortcomings or impassable roadblocks? Bear in mind what we're dealing with here: an online only free-to-play RPG. There's only so much that you can provide with servers online 24/7 and no subscription fees.

And yes, ANet *has* addressed these problems in GW2: save for a few end mission areas, the game is going to be entirely soloable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Now again I'm not saying heroes are bad or that being able to play solo are bad (they aren't), I'm just saying the CULTURE it created is bad (solo farmers). People who bought this game as a multiplayer competitive game with RPG elements and Guilds being promenent part of the gaming experience (both stated on the box that some people keep ridiculously posting), these people have watched it turn into a single player RPG with competitive elements. Do you see the problem there?

First, we can't use the term "solo farmers" to those who are soloers, since it's addressing an entirely different crowd. Secondly, those "soloers" have been soloing in the game with henchies long before heroes came into view.

And the problem I'm seeing - much, much more than the "problem" of heroes - is the inevitable fact that games get old, coupled with the fact that the game is very big.

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Originally Posted by DreamWind

You have to give good reasons "WHY", that are not "because I want them" and "why not", particularly towards Anet who wouldn't get much out of implementing it.

Why: To make a much more involving, fulfilling and deeper game for those who truly wish to dedicate their time to it. Spending a huge chunk of time researching classes, builds, skills, etc. In general, it's to improve upon the game. There's really not a whole lot to say besides that, in all honesty.

Why not: Heroes are by far from being a "pick up and go" portion of the game. As is, 3 heroes don't just "gust up" random players who want to try it. It's probably safe to assume most players would put bars on heroes that are even worse than henchies. They'll only be as "good and op" as you yourself are. They're only as good as you make them, and if you don't make them good, they'll suck - and if they suck, they're not going to be appealing to the majority populous.

DreamWind · Sep 27, 2008, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Stuff

Fair enough. I'd say you are one of the few legit posters in this thread. I really only entered this thread because I thought many of the arguments were bad. I also dislike the direction the game has gone. But I suppose nothing can be done about that now, so adding 7 heroes wouldn't really affect me nowadays.

Amy Awien · Sep 27, 2008, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

... the entire rest of the box was covered in statements that your skill determined your game over time spent ...

"Your skill will be your Legend"

It takes more skill to setup and play 7 heroes then it takes to join and play in a PuG. It also takes more time to complete missions with PuGs then it takes with H/H. More heroes would serve the slogan better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Yes I didn't want a game full of solo farmers. I wanted the multiplayer competitive experience that Anet actually meant this game to be (and stated multiple times on said box).

There is something to evaluate, the cooperative experience diminished, or got lost, and it is not because of heroes and henchmen, but sooner because participants had different goals and expectations. PuGs were taken over and deployed by those who had their goals set and their targets marked, at the cost of those who sought a the cooperation and shared participation of the story and world.

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Originally Posted by Ozric

Let the npc bears have their 7 or 12 or 36 or however many heroes they think they'll need to do anything and everything they think they need to do to farm all the cute little titles and get all the little digital toys they think they want. This game was already ruined for those that preferred pve in a multiplayer atmosphere the day heroes were introduced anyway.

You have it backwards, I couldn't care less about the titles, it's the title pushers and greenstar chasers that ruined the cooperative aspects of the game and drove me and other players to use the Henchmen, and later heroes.

Quote:

This poll more reflects the amount of people who left the game out of frustration for not being able to get a group and rightfully refused to play H/H.

Then you should have let the other players enjoy the game as well without pushing them to meet your goals. Goodbye.

Hell Raiser · Sep 28, 2008, 02:20 AM // 02:20

A large reason I bought this game 40 months ago was for the multiplayer aspect, and you know what? I had a lot of fun with that... while it lasted. I now play with either H/H or my guild, 7 heroes wouldn't change that, I'd still only play with 7H or my guild. PUGs are dead, they died once the game got so big (3 continents with tons of content, plus elite areas, not to mention heroes), everyone still playing is so spread out that your best hope is your Guild/Alliance/Friendlist, and 7 heroes wouldn't change that. If this was early 2006 and we had 3 heroes (which we didn't back then), I would not support 7 heroes. But it's late 2008, and the game has changed... a lot, and I think 7 heroes would be a nice addition at this point.

Just my 2¢

Bryant Again · Sep 28, 2008, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Fair enough. I'd say you are one of the few legit posters in this thread. I really only entered this thread because I thought many of the arguments were bad. I also dislike the direction the game has gone. But I suppose nothing can be done about that now, so adding 7 heroes wouldn't really affect me nowadays.

The hardest part is that we have a reception and somewhat of an end product (a lot of people are still playing GW, so not a *full* endproduct): A lot of people grouped in the past, and now not so much. The hardest part is that there's nothing that can fully explain it, and I don't think even ANet would be able to fully, if at all, figure it out.

But that's what this forum's for!

JDRyder · Sep 28, 2008, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sjeng

I can answer that for you:
In a group with guildmates you literally OWN all missions and vanquishes. That's because guildmates know you, your playing style, and you know theirs. You can discuss builds before entering any mission, and fill up remaining spots with heroes with the appropriate build.

you missed the point, cause you didnt read the last few post before that. Its easier to just add in H/H then to find 7 guild members. I also say a few post back before that 1 that a good guild group will always be better but its still easy with h/h and easier to just add 7NPCs a go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sjeng

In a H/H group you can only use 3 heroes which you can set up yourself, using only YOUR knowledge of the mission/area/whatever. Of course there is wiki and guru etc, but not everyone is as acquainted[sp?] with those as you are. So you're stuck with in most cases limited knowledge, 3 heroes, and 4 henchmen that can't be customized.

And? The game is not that hard to learn I dont know why so many people keep saying how "every 1 at this game sucks" there is a very big skill curve in this game, but pve is still easy and unchanging and today few people get stuck anywhere in the game.

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Originally Posted by Sjeng

Furthermore, guildmates can use PvE skills. Big point there. Makes PvE much much easier.

they are just skills, and they don't add a BIG change in how long its going to take to complete the missions quest or w/e.

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Originally Posted by Sjeng

I'd say that makes it pretty clear how playing with guildmates can be a LOT more easy than playing with H/H. And I can concur from personal experience. I absolutely hate missions like Dzagonur Bastion, Moddok Crevice, Grand Court of Sebelkeh, Jennur's Horde, simply because I simply can't seem to master them with H/H. Hell, sometimes I can't even finish them at all. Sure, that might mean I'm not the greatest GW player around, but I'm a casual gamer. I have a full-time job, a busy social life, and whatnot. GW fills my spare hours of free time, so I'm your average Joe playing GW. It's pretty obvious how playing with H/H can be pretty frustrating to people like myself sometimes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sjeng

Don't argue from your single point of view JDRyder. YOU might be as efficient with H/H as a full guild-team, but not everyone is. So 7 heroes would make things easier, but still not ruin the game. Even with 7 heroes, most people need guildies or friends to help out.

you dont even know what my views are on heros from what you have been typing

Heros will make the game easier, and making the game any easier is bad cause it already is easy or sloppy content. It does not take long to do any of the missions, quest VQs "some Vqs are hard but most are easy" and the few things like DoA, FoW, UW etc, that are hard or at least fun, will become much easier for people and more solo friendly. Right now the game has become a grind, something it was not when they made it.

Also theres no reason to add 7heros, If your saying "so i can make team builds" you already can do that you just have it in your mind that some how your to good to play with other players or your so helpless about when you have dinner you cant play with other players, If that 10mins that it takes for you to eat, eats up so much time that you cant play with other players, then why are you even playing and worried about it? Theres also no reason why you cant find people to play with, there's tons of people just on guru looking for people that play on non-US times, hell most the thread i see looking for people, are looking for people that play at odd times.

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Originally Posted by Sjeng

Another reason why I'd like 7 heroes: The game is slowly dying. Outposts are empty nowadays. If not for the 3 heroes you can bring now, the game would be dead and buried long ago. So why not allow 7 heroes now?

Games like GW die when people stop seeing other players, more people started to play solo when they added 3heros and more will solo if they add 7heros and you'll see less people and more people will leave. If the "game is dying" does not mean you need to change anything, its just time to move on, the game has been out for over 3years now anyway.

Bryant Again · Sep 28, 2008, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

you missed the point, cause you didnt read the last few post before that. Its easier to just add in H/H then to find 7 guild members. I also say a few post back before that 1 that a good guild group will always be better but its still easy with h/h and easier to just add 7NPCs a go.

Again: it's easier *only* depending on the resources you have at hand. Most people do not have those resources.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

And? The game is not that hard to learn I dont know why so many people keep saying how "every 1 at this game sucks" there is a very big skill curve in this game, but pve is still easy and unchanging and today few people get stuck anywhere in the game.

Yet again, easier for you =/= easier for everyone. That's the only thing I'm going on because nothing else has merit . "Everyone i know says the same thing", well I could say the exact opposite thing, "everyone *I* know finds it hard", and it would still hold the same grain of salt. The comment "few people get stuck anywhere in the game" is entirely an oversight since you don't know everyone in the game (obviously).

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

they are just skills, and they don't add a BIG change in how long its going to take to complete the missions quest or w/e.

"Save Yourselves!" is a BIG change from "Watch Yourselves!" "There's nothing to fear!" is a HUGE change from "Incoming!". Pain Invertor is a TOTAL boost compared to Prot. Spirit. List goes on...

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

Heros will make the game easier, and making the game any easier is bad cause it already is easy or sloppy content.

So answer me this: Are you now totally for crappy and sloppy difficulty increases? Because that's exactly what those four henchmen are doing. You cannot be anti-HM difficulty implementation and be all for the "difficulty" henchmen enforce.

And it yet again comes down to what I said that the beginning of the post: Heroes are not universal "win" buttons. If you give a full team of heroes to a player with very little experience and skills unlocked only for his class (i.e. the majority of the playerbase), he's not going to have much success. 7 heroes will only make it easier for those who are knowledgeable and collective about the game - and they should be rewarded for that.

Inner Salbat · Sep 28, 2008, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

As I said, you are one of the only people in this thread in support of this.

I know, of course I want it for free but I'm a realist it will require some sort of development time even if it is a flip of a switch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

You have what I like to call selective reading. If you are telling me you rushed to the box and read the tiny part about being able to solo (with HENCHMEN mind you not heroes), but you didn't even notice that the entire rest of the box was covered in statements that your skill determined your game over time spent, then you are clearly using the box only for your own purposes and completely ignoring the rest of it. If I had a working scanner I would prove it to you myself.

Yep but it didn't mean anything at the time because I hadn't played the game yet, I was still standing in the store and I was looking for what I wanted not what they wanted to try and sell me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Finally you got something right. Yes I didn't want a game full of solo farmers. I wanted the multiplayer competitive experience that Anet actually meant this game to be (and stated multiple times on said box).

If anything is killing PuGs it will be all the solo farmers, I mean the type that go down alone with no H/H at all to places like UW etc, because there isolating them self from the player base.

Brought about might I add by the stupid concept of loot scaling, back in the day and still today to some extent it is far more profitable to farm alone than with anyone, it should be more profitable to "play" the game as a group of people not as a lone warror so too speak, as 1 player you should get sod all as 8 it should be raining gold on your head, 8 being 8 players not H/H and with H/H you should get something in the middle.

Zahr Dalsk · Sep 28, 2008, 05:48 AM // 05:48

If anything is killing PUGs, what's killing them are the average PUG players. It's stress, and a game isn't supposed to be stressful.

Inner Salbat · Sep 28, 2008, 06:36 AM // 06:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

If anything is killing PUGs, what's killing them are the average PUG players. It's stress, and a game isn't supposed to be stressful.

That too I think that is a growing stigma of any online game and unless properly addressed will be there ultimate down fall, PerfectWorld addresses this by placing GM's in there game so that if you have any problem be it with the game or a person it can be swiftly dealt with and can be seen to be dealt with, in GW your never quite sure that your /report had any effect what so ever.

JDRyder · Sep 29, 2008, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Again: it's easier *only* depending on the resources you have at hand. Most people do not have those resources.

dont have what? a few skills and wiki?

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Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Yet again, easier for you =/= easier for everyone. That's the only thing I'm going on because nothing else has merit . "Everyone i know says the same thing", well I could say the exact opposite thing, "everyone *I* know finds it hard", and it would still hold the same grain of salt. The comment "few people get stuck anywhere in the game" is entirely an oversight since you don't know everyone in the game (obviously).

people get better, they don't get worse. What happens when all the people you know get good at the game?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

"Save Yourselves!" is a BIG change from "Watch Yourselves!" "There's nothing to fear!" is a HUGE change from "Incoming!". Pain Invertor is a TOTAL boost compared to Prot. Spirit. List goes on...

I dont remember saying any thing about WY or incoming, the only skill i can think about wanting to have is SY, the others are "ok" but nothing OP. You can have SY anyway w/o heros using pve skills. With or with out pve skills the mission/quest/whatever is still easy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

So answer me this: Are you now totally for crappy and sloppy difficulty increases? Because that's exactly what those four henchmen are doing. You cannot be anti-HM difficulty implementation and be all for the "difficulty" henchmen enforce.

Nope, the sloppy content I'm talking about is all the updates with in the last month or 2 and HM. The devs did a really good job the 1st 2years of GW, but I think they started f***ing up. I think the H/H is a better idea than 7heros, cause it give you 3 people you can mod, and then 4 every day fighters. It makes heros more important imo, and gives people a reason to play with other players cause they cant do some areas with just H/H.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

And it yet again comes down to what I said that the beginning of the post: Heroes are not universal "win" buttons. If you give a full team of heroes to a player with very little experience and skills unlocked only for his class (i.e. the majority of the playerbase), he's not going to have much success. 7 heroes will only make it easier for those who are knowledgeable and collective about the game - and they should be rewarded for that.

yea and it will not be long till all the "less knowledgeable players" learn the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

If anything is killing PUGs, what's killing them are the average PUG players. It's stress, and a game isn't supposed to be stressful.

if your getting stressed out over a game, go outside

Sjeng · Sep 29, 2008, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

you missed the point, cause you didnt read the last few post before that. Its easier to just add in H/H then to find 7 guild members. I also say a few post back before that 1 that a good guild group will always be better but its still easy with h/h and easier to just add 7NPCs a go.

Maybe quicker yes, but you don't need 7 guild members. You need 1 or 2, completed with heroes and some PvE skills. That makes an awesome party.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

And? The game is not that hard to learn I dont know why so many people keep saying how "every 1 at this game sucks" there is a very big skill curve in this game, but pve is still easy and unchanging and today few people get stuck anywhere in the game.

I'd have to agree with Bryant Again on that statement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

they (*PvE skills*) are just skills, and they don't add a BIG change in how long its going to take to complete the missions quest or w/e.

I beg to differ.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

Heros will make the game easier, and making the game any easier is bad cause it already is easy or sloppy content. It does not take long to do any of the missions, quest VQs "some Vqs are hard but most are easy" and the few things like DoA, FoW, UW etc, that are hard or at least fun, will become much easier for people and more solo friendly. Right now the game has become a grind, something it was not when they made it.

Some missions can take hours. That's long for someone who only has an hour if that each evening. And what's grind have to do with that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

Also theres no reason to add 7heros, If your saying "so i can make team builds" you already can do that you just have it in your mind that some how your to good to play with other players or your so helpless about when you have dinner you cant play with other players, If that 10mins that it takes for you to eat, eats up so much time that you cant play with other players, then why are you even playing and worried about it? Theres also no reason why you cant find people to play with, there's tons of people just on guru looking for people that play on non-US times, hell most the thread i see looking for people, are looking for people that play at odd times.

Dinner in 10 minutes? I take my time preparing a good meal every night, and like to sit down with my girlfriend and have a nice conversation over dinner. That's more important to me than GW, so I can't just drop everything and enter a mission any time I want to. And I never said I couldn't find people to play with, I have a great guild with great people, but sometimes you just need a mission or vanquish that nobody else needs or has time for at the moment or just can't do yet. 7heroes would be greatly appreciated in such cases. I've considered asking my guildies to loan me their 3 heroes, so I have 6 heroes with my preferred builds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

Games like GW die when people stop seeing other players, more people started to play solo when they added 3heros and more will solo if they add 7heros and you'll see less people and more people will leave. If the "game is dying" does not mean you need to change anything, its just time to move on, the game has been out for over 3years now anyway.

They started playing solo because the game is huge, people are spread out, people have left because they've moved on. If someone doens't want to move on yet, they should have the possibility to play solo.

I have to agree on Bryant's entire post

Numa Pompilius · Sep 29, 2008, 10:43 AM // 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

d
I dont remember saying any thing about WY or incoming, the only skill i can think about wanting to have is SY, the others are "ok" but nothing OP.

Enough of that BS, you're being either stupid or ignorant. Reversal of Damage, Lightbringers Gaze etc are immensely powerful compared to normal skills, not "ok". That you don't know or realize this is your problem, not ours.

Quote:

if your getting stressed out over a game, go outside

He means that "gogogogogogo rez me noob" is a stressed-out way to play, and that's the pug way of playing.

Inner Salbat · Sep 29, 2008, 12:01 PM // 12:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Quote:

if your getting stressed out over a game, go outside

He means that "gogogogogogo rez me noob" is a stressed-out way to play, and that's the pug way of playing.

In other words don't bother playing at all, good got it.

Sjeng · Sep 29, 2008, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

In other words don't bother playing at all, good got it.

No, in other words: don't bother playing with PUGs if it stresses you out, use guildmates and/or heroes instead. But not everyone is in a guild, or feels the need for one. Hence the want for 7 heroes.
And I agree with Numa Pompilius. PvE skills make a LOT of difference. I always carry Pain Inverter and "Finish Him!", which leaves me a third optional PvE slot that I choose depending on the area/mission I'm going to do. Ever tried killing a mob of Jotuns in HM? A true pain in the ***, but bring some minions, swarm the Jotun, cast Pain Inverter: one Giant Stomp and he's dead instantly. Do not tell me you can do that faster without PvE skills, because then you're simply lying.